Toro Rosso can win races with Honda engine
- Published on 18 May 2018 10:47
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- By: Danny Sosef
Toro Rosso remains happy with its new relationship with Honda. James Key, the junior Red Bull team's technical boss, said that unlike McLaren in the past three years, Toro Rosso is enjoying working with the Japanese manufacturer.
"The honeymoon is long over," he told Speed Week. "The relationship has already become much deeper. The cooperation is exemplary."
Key said being a works team is a novelty that Toro Rosso is not used to, but is enjoying. "It's a challenge that we gladly accepted," he said. "We have never had the opportunity to work so closely with an engine manufacturer. We have more responsibility as a factory racing team. It's a completely different situation to being purely a customer. Life at the track is easier as I find that Honda responds to each of our wishes."
The latest reports reveal that Toro Rosso's owner Red Bull is now in talks with Honda about a supply of Japanese engines for the main F1 team. But Key said Toro Rosso can win with Honda. "Where are the rules that say the other teams can't win?" he smiled. I think it's feasible that we can catch up with the best teams. And with a bit of luck, a podium finish is definitely possible. In the longer term, we want to get in a position to win races with Honda," Key said.
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Replies (27)
Login to replyTimberVD
Posts: 42
Except you're 1 or 2 laps behind on a Sunday. Good luck Key, but unfortunately you won't be winning races until at least 2021.
juju_hound
Posts: 180
McLaren wanted to win races from day one, Honda didn't
BENNY DONKER
Posts: 1,976
Don't be silly!
calle.itw
Posts: 8,527
What nonsense.
calle.itw
Posts: 8,527
You can win races sure, but it'd take a miracle.
RogerF1
Posts: 501
He didn’t say it was in F1 though! Could be they’re plann8ng a different series?
mbmwe36
Posts: 533
When I saw the headline, I'll admit I laughed - a lot!
But he does raise a few good points. Namely that they have a day in the matter now, as opposed to just having to make do.
I think the main thing holding them back right now is their drivers. Specifically Hartley. Gasly actually seems to have potential, but there's only so much you can do as a rookie.
Let's not forget that he's also clearly saying it tongue in cheek too.
calle.itw
Posts: 8,527
Yeah, Hartley seem to be another Palmer.
boudy
Posts: 1,168
I actually don't think that Hartley is that bad. He looks to be getting better each race. I think it's too early to say yet. The driver that is the worst at the moment is grosjean even Ericsson is driving better.
calle.itw
Posts: 8,527
I disagree that Grosjean is the worst, at this rate thats probably either Williams driver, but its hard to say, and he is no doubt underperforming. And Ericsson is hard to measure because he is in a not very optimal car. But seeing what pace Gasly has, either he is excelling or Hartley is underperforming.
boudy
Posts: 1,168
Grosjean has been struggling for the last 2 seasons. His driving is erratic and he dangerous is the decisions he makes, constantly questioning other people and not at all aware of his own failings. On the other hand is Hartley who's aware of the opportunity and is honest that he still catching up. He just needs a bit more time. Comparing drivers is always troublesome but for me it's Grosjean who is underperforming by a larger margin.
Major Tom
Posts: 152
Hartley seems to have been amazingly unlucky so far so I'm prepared to defer judgement on him. For me William seem to have to have the two worst drivers - although that may be a bit unfair since William clearly win the 'worst car' award by unanimous acclaim.
mcbhargav
Posts: 1,332
Good one!
ajpennypacker
Posts: 2,475
The one thing Toro Rosso is doing very well is managing the relationship with Honda. The engine is still largely rubbish (compared to the others) and the performance of the car is simply not there. However, their drivers and management are very much coached to avoid placing blame on Honda. I wonder if that was part of the deal... refrain from further tarnishing their brand because they have seriously been like politicians when spinning the issues with Honda. At least Franz Tost has finally shut up about beating McLaren and rubbing it in their nose as he so desperately wanted.
Also... I love Brendon Hartley and really want him to do well. But so far he has been very underwhelming.
calle.itw
Posts: 8,527
Their current goal seem to be one thing: make sure the Honda unit can progress as much as possible so that Red Bull can see if going Honda is worth it. Since STR will likely not bring many upgrades of their own (they usually dont, so thats normal), their performance this year largely depend on the drivers and the PU. Mind, I think STR is genuinly happy with having a partner that actually cares. If it were all a play we'd notice. Thats the thing with business people, they think we are too stupid to know when they are bullshitting.
An interesting note: The STR is still faster on the straights than some of the Renault powered cars. Not sure if thats down to the engine, mind.
ajpennypacker
Posts: 2,475
@Calle I do agree that STR is generally happy and full of patience for Honda. They along with Red Bull conspired to savage the remains of the relationship with Renault. Of course Renault didn't help things by failing to deliver what was expected. But again, STR is the only good fit for Honda. We've already seen what Red Bull is capable of doing after ONE bad season with an engine provider, even if the bad season was after 4 championship winning years. I actually feel fairly confident that Helmut, Dietrich, and Chris Horner would be way worst than Zak, Eric, and Fernando in terms of straining the relationship with Honda.
calle.itw
Posts: 8,527
The only good fit for now. I expect that will and would change if Honda does git gud (with gud being equal or better than Renault) or were to get a second team on board. But honestly, while I would've agreed with you earlier, I will say that Im not as sure that McLaren is a nicer partner anymore. Sponsors have been leaving them in droves, and none of Honda's affiliated sponsors were willing to partner with McLaren. Meanwhile, sponsors are literally fighting to get a spot on RB's car. And I dont think all of that is down to better performance.
TimberVD
Posts: 42
Does anyone know how it would work with RB being the works partner of Honda, who makes cars/engines, and their title sponsor Aston Martin, who also makes cars/engines?
Wouldn't that be a conflict of interest? Especially since Aston Martin expressed interest in becoming a supplier 2021?
I just think seeing both Honda and Aston Martin livery on the same car would be really weird.
ajpennypacker
Posts: 2,475
I think that's one of the reasons RB is taking so long to decide. They would not be able keep both sponsorships. Not because of conflict of interest, but because it would look silly. Aston Martin is mulling an entry into F1 and presumably it would have been through RB.
calle.itw
Posts: 8,527
It would, and I dont think Aston Martin would be fond of it. But Honda have their own money as well as a set of affiliated brands, so chances are they wouldnt really lose that money even if Aston were to part ways with RB.
boudy
Posts: 1,168
It's all down to airtime and Redbull has way higher percentage of this than anyone else. That is down to the driver style that Redbull prefers. Honda will be a great fit from an marketing point of view.
calle.itw
Posts: 8,527
And I think Red Bull will like the Honda's compact nature. Im sure they'd be able to make more of it than McLaren ever could. But we'll see. First we need to see if they can match Renault.
Major Tom
Posts: 152
I think those are all secondary issues. RB has got to be scared stiff of repeating McLaren's experience. The Renault engine leaves much to be desired but at least they are finishing most races (when they don't crash) and even winning occasionally.
calle.itw
Posts: 8,527
They are for sure, but its nevertheless reasons beneficial to Honda. And I think Renault's unwillingness to bring midseason upgrades will cost them in the long run.
TimberVD
Posts: 42
Hugely great fit. Super move from a marketing perspective. I think the two are made for each other. I really think so. Austrian Samurai.
I think if Aston Martin are humble enough it would offer even greater perspective of greatness. Great pool of knowledge. It might just be enough to trounce Mercedes if everything comes together.
Of course, it's a high level of fairytale and we know F1 doesn't quite work like that in practice.
Major Tom
Posts: 152
Not a chance on present performance.
TimberVD
Posts: 42
I was thinking long run. Post 2021.