Renault engine 'really a problem' - Verstappen
- Published on 12 Jul 2018 09:54
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- By: Jeroen Jonkers
Max Verstappen says Red Bull's title chances have taken a dive.
Although the Dutchman won in Austria, he says at the most recent races, Renault's power deficit has become a much bigger problem.
"I think we have the strongest chassis of anyone," said Verstappen. "If we had the Mercedes or Ferrari engine, they would never see us again.
"But now we have too little speed on the straight. It's really a problem.
"Since Ferrari and Mercedes did their engine upgrade, the deficit has really increased," he added.
He said the biggest example of that was Silverstone, where he says Red Bull was "slow".
And Germany next weekend could also be a problem.
"It's eight corners and many straights in between them," Verstappen said of Hockenheim.
"But you never know, we could achieve good results thanks to incidents and safety cars. But it won't be easy," he told De Telegraaf newspaper.
"I think after that we can really compete in Hungary, Singapore and Mexico. I think on average we lose six, seven tenths because of the engine, but there are perhaps four tenths we can compensate for elsewhere.
"So yes, I see opportunities there," he added.
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Replies (25)
Login to replyLightIsRight
Posts: 113
Go pull half of the Alonso/Mclaren stories from last year, find and replace McLaren with red bull, Alonso with Crashstappen and Honda with Renault and it reads exactly like this story. I agree with recycling but this is a bit much...
boudy
Posts: 1,168
Verstappen is correct you could see that all the Renault powered car were effectively sitting ducks for an chasing Hamilton. The speed differential was astonishing. The redbulls stripped an enormous amount of down force of the car to get some kind of competitive speed and although in the race it was to be bad they lost about by almost an second during qualifying.
Verstappen just points out that the Renault PU are not closing the gap towards the front.
LightIsRight
Posts: 113
Okay. Still reads like the Alonso McLaren stories from last year. We have the best chassis, we would be right up there if we had a better engine, we suck on tracks with lots of straights, watch our performance on twisty tracks, we can only hope for incidents and rain to get good results. Find and replace...
Bhurt
Posts: 320
@Light.. difference being that the least of McLaren's issues, as it turns out, was the engine.
Rindtchamp
Posts: 304
You think that's bad Max? Wait until you fit a Honda in the back next season.
lol :D
Tuurlijk!
Posts: 1,569
Still the third team, the rest is too far behind....
calle.itw
Posts: 8,527
Come on Honda. Make Alonso eat it all.
xoya
Posts: 583
Renault should just cut delivery of the engines to these ingrates.
calle.itw
Posts: 8,527
When we get a batch of poorly manufactured blood bags, and have to throw them away, is it our fault for getting them and signing a deal with our supplier, or the fault of our supplier? I get that its rich coming from the team that will sign Honda next year, assuming Honda wont deliver next year (and I think they will overtake Renault but I digress), but Renault has really been selling their customers teddy bears full of cu... ehrm glass ever since the start of the hybrid era. And with the poor services they've frequently given their supplied teams, I think they deserved having Red Bull. I just wish this will be another happy divorce, where Red Bull get a good engine, and Renault gets a rest from RB's pladder.
Hombibi
Posts: 137
What nonsense, what do you want RB to say when someone asks them the question. Maybe that their deficit in Silverstone was due to their chassis? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to find out that the Renault engine is much less powerful. It was clearly visible during qualification, and almost every commentator pointed it out. It is not a secret, it is not an accusation, it is just a simple fact and the explanation of why they think they can not challenge for the world title. It is business, not love, and we don't know anything about who has not held up his part of the bargain. But looking at the results I think I have an idea..
xoya
Posts: 583
I agree with both of you. I am not blind. It's just a bit distasteful timing-wise. Plus, it is not a first time they say that AND they switched their engine supplier, so we kinda get the point. Trash talk only gets you a bad reputation. Just look at McLaren
calle.itw
Posts: 8,527
Maybe, I'll leave the untastefulness and whether its bashing or not to you lot to decide. I'd probably say there is a difference between McLaren a.k.a our chassis is foolproof, and Red Bull, which often have aknowledged when their chassis and so on isnt up to their usual standards (and yes thats no frabrication, RB has multiple times these over the hybrid era aknowledged flaws in their own systems). Another factor to take into consideration when discussing RB's displeasure with Renault vs the McHonda debacle is that Honda, while delivering poor engines to McLaren, actually did deliver decent support and service for their customer. Renault hasnt. Renault has stopped giving out upgrades past the midseason point multiple times, and has "run out of spare parts" a few times.
ajpennypacker
Posts: 2,475
Yeah... Things will be so great next year when Honda equip them with their "superior" engines. I expect a lot of excuses next year. Patience. Talk of partnership, etc.
calle.itw
Posts: 8,527
Seeing as they are almost identical in performance this year (STR being faster on Silverstone straights again I've heard, harr harr), bar the lack of shoddy "out of spares" and sponsor cash, I dont think its a too bad deal. But we'll see. As usual, I'll (try at least to) remain cautiously optimistic, but I do legit think Honda will overtake Renault. RB arent stupid. Even if they love bashing Renault as much as I love bashing politicians and corporations... And Abiteboul... And the current McLiaren... they'd stick with them if they didnt see progress on the Honda side of things.
ajpennypacker
Posts: 2,475
@Calle Even if your estimations are accurate, I find it distasteful and utterly moronic to bash the engine manufacturer supplying your team when we're not even half way through the season. I don't understand it. It helps no one.
Hombibi
Posts: 137
@AJPENNYPACKER, reading the transcript of the interview I don't find any bad mouthing, bashing or anything else wrong with it. Surely RB may state that the engine is not strong enough to compete with Mercedes and Ferrari on circuits where engine power is the determining factor. It is not as if they have taken the statement out of thin air. Why would it be distasteful, it is just facts, not even opinion.
As for why, I don't know, the transcript does not elaborate, but I guess someone asked him the question, he/she wanted to know.
ajpennypacker
Posts: 2,475
@Hombibi There is no question that the Renault engine is holding them back. However, ever since the Honda announcement, they have complained about Renault in some shape or form in every single GP. I'm not bashing Verstappen, his was actually one of the more mild comments. I'm talking more about Chris Horner, Helmut, and other characters. Why distasteful? Because it's the engine provider that helped them to 4 consecutive championships. Because even if they have not been the best engine, they've been a good partner. Anyway... it doesn't matter anyway.
Tuurlijk!
Posts: 1,569
Untill 2014....thats lightyears in the past.....
Since the hybrid years renault is shit, look at ferrari, they got it working the last 1.5 years, so why not renault? If you pay good money for shitty engines you have the right to complain. Since honda left the size zero concept 2 years ago they make big steps and are more or less as competitive as the renault who dont make the steps as promised...
Going tuo honda is the best step for reddbull, they are not stupid and have the numbers...
jsxF1fan
Posts: 6
I find RB exaggerating their deficit alot. I read elsewhere Verstappen claiming losing 1sec on the straights. These seem too large numbers and I feel the team is making no friends by bashing the engine that has brought them so many world champions. Talk about burning your bridges!! No one will supply any engines to them if Honda doesnt work out.
Hombibi
Posts: 137
Mercedes and Ferrari will never supply them with engines, regardless of whether they like them or not. They wiill never risk being beaten by a RB with their own engine. So it is only Renault, and Honda.
Renault has never delivered a current spec engine as powerfull as Mercedes or Ferrari. Why anyone gets upset when Red Bull explains that their Renault engine delivers significantly less power than Mercedes or Ferrari is totally beyond me. It is just facts. I would be surprised if Renault would be insulted. It is not as if RB is making up a story here...
boudy
Posts: 1,168
Considering how much they were behind in qualifying that’s about right. Mercedes and Ferrari had made far bigger improvements than Renault. At sometime you need an change if you are behind and that's what really drives RB. Verstappen is stating the obvious here. Every year Renault promises to be closer to Mercedes/Ferrari and every year they falter. Mercedes/Ferrari don't want to sell their PU only because it would put their main team in trouble. But it's OK for RB to sign up with Honda since the majority of F1 fans don't really believes that Honda will be an main contender (I do not adhere to this thought an think that Honda could well be).
On your point though it must be said that the RB chassis will need adjusting to the PU characteristics since this is so tightly integrated in F1. The chassis must be extremely good in producing mechanical grip since they are so competitive in Monaco.
After 2020 the engines will become more manageable for PU producers so Cosworth or others will come to the grid.
f1ski
Posts: 726
I sad it last year, an inferior power unit can make a chassis look better than it really is. Add that extra power delivery the chassis dent hook up quite as well.
Hombibi
Posts: 137
I like your point of view, it surely applies for McLaren, because they fell through the floor this year. But does it apply to RedBulll? They are consistently much faster then any other Renault powered car, so that must be due to the chassis. And they are able to challenge, and even win from the highest powered cars on circuits where power is not the key differentiator. That would also lead to conclusion that their chassis is very strong. So the question is then, what would happen if you put a strong engine in the RB chassis. I think everyone wants to see that. But maybe not Mercedes and Ferrari....
mcbhargav
Posts: 1,332
Whats the point of this rant? Renault has moved on, and RedBull has moved on.
calle.itw
Posts: 8,527
The point of our rants or Red Bull's?
Red Bull: its them explaining why they basically had very little chance of winning this weekend.
Us: its an interesting topic worth discussing. The deal is penned, but regardless its interesting to talk about it. :)