Ecclestone: "McLaren won't be any happier with Renault"

Ofcourse but armchair experts would have you believe Honda is about to win races next year let alone be even worthy for a podium on merit.

Is English not your first language then???? ? Well said though!

Yaz Engrish ist phantbulozsie dumkopf.

Exactly! People like to talk about Honda being 3 years into the project with nothing to show for it. Then what exactly does that say about Renault? They've had much, much more track time over the last four years with RBR, Toro and their own team - and they have very, very little to show for it, and it's basically only the RBR chassis that is making them look decent. Both Toro Rosso and Renault are struggling to say the very least. Then when you add in the reliability factor, with 2-3 times the testing that Honda have had, it makes this move mind boggling to say the least.

It is, and it will be a much more expensive deal for them to boot. Not only do they lose the Honda sponsor cash, they have to pay to get out of their current deal and pay to sign with Renault. Surely that cant bode well for next year's spec. And speaking about sponsors: their current fight with Renault over BP is, I predict, pretty much over now. Whom would you choose? a works team or the team said works team give engines to? Pretty obvious decision, IMO.

@calle.itw @mbmwe36 I agree, undoubtedly the argument can be made that Honda should be performing better, but the same argument can definately be made for Renault, they started their development earlier and as mentioned have alot more data from tracktime. The underperforming PU cannot be the sole reason for the split, something else must be festering in the relationship, maybe McLaren thought they could bark orders at Honda and maybe Honda were expecting more of a dialogue. I think Honda will get their act together and then buy Toro Rosso and with James Key there it could turn out to be a great team.

Bark orders at Honda? If anything McLaren deferred to Honda for far too long. McLaren probably expected (incorrectly in hindsight) that Honda would come up with something workable. They didn't. Now the naysayers insist that it was McLaren "forcing Honda" into a "size zero" PU design philosophy. This is all total BS. Honda went radical and got it 180 degrees wrong and this is the result. As an PU

Sorry, as a PU customer McLaren would take a more passive role regarding design and implementation and to blame McLaren for dominating the relationship to the point of failure is nothing short of risible.

Thats all very well, but you forget that both Honda and McLaren has confirmed that it was in fact McLaren that requested, not forced, Honda to produce a compact engine, and Honda gave them what they asked for, even if it wasnt what they desired. It takes two for the tango regarding them entering in 2015 instead of waiting one more year. As for McLaren being passive, well... They've hardly kept it a secret that they wanted more insight in what Honda did with their PU. I mean, look at some of the comments Dennis issued. As for Honda, well, I think they wanted something like what they had with Bar in early 2000's and Jordan before them.

I agree, I find this quite worrying. Even more so because of that potential 3 years deal. If they, somehow, would like to switch during those 3 years, they would have to pay their way out, but they lack the cash to do so now.

Completely agree that the major risk is 'forgetting' how to win. However, i think McLaren had reached that stage before Honda. Question: How come Paddy Lowe was poached by Mercedes and let go quite quickly? No-one has asked that, after all his last designs for McLaren were disasters, and now, he's at Williams who are also hoping for a design miracle. If he was any good a) he would have resigned a winning car for McLaren and b) Mercedes wouldn't have let him go. What's this to do with McLaren Honda? Just a demonstration that once you lose the art of winning, you become a loser.

Agree entirely and now the rules are there, though not quite in concrete, I expect McLaren have already started on their F1 Engine

I disagree. McLaren doesnt even have the facilities nor the resources to build their own engines. How would they build their engines then? Sure, they could rebadge engines, and Im sure they are considering it, but that would be more expensive for them than just being a customer team. And as of now, McLaren is very short on cash. In short, if McLaren will build their own F1 units, it wont be for another while, and they will certainly not be ready for 2021.

That's not gonna happen. Like Calle says they lack the resources, first and foremost. Secondly, why is it a given that they would do a better job than Honda and Renault? Everything being equal, I would say they would be a distant third in that battle.
With 2020 rules, it should be easier. But then you could make the argument that they would probably be better off choosing one of the independent supplies that is expected to enter F1 by then.

McLaren do build their own production engines with their exclusive partner Ricardo and they are not standing still! They have the hybrid drive technology also. Let's see in 2020

They do not build their own engines though, do they? Sure, they give input and design certain bits of their engines, and they do produce their own sensors, gearboxes and such, but thats where it ends. The McLaren F1 had an engine fully designed by BMW, and all McLarens up until coming models (which will once again be supplied by BMW) has an engine originally designed by Nissan, with small edits done by McLaren, but otherwise mainly revamped and built by Ricardo. And Ricardo, too, lack the facilities to build a proper F1 engine. Look at the bases Ferrari has in Maranello, and at Honda's base in Sakura. Building a road car engine vs building an F1 unit is basically as comparing my glass of water to the pacific sea.

I get what you're saying, but I'm not so sure if I would take that gamble if I'm HAAS, just yet anyway. No matter how much their pride has been hurt, it's not a given they will come good. A good example would be Toyota - they struggled for years, throwing money at it, with state of the art facilities with nothing to show for it, and finally just said F it and left. Honda during the BAR run didn't exactly set the world on fire either, so it's not a given they'll get it right, pride or not.
It made sense for Sauber to give it a shot before they became Ferrari's developmental team. That perhaps is the only reason HAAS should even consider it, because Sauber has essentially taken their place.
I could also see Williams considering it at some point, but how do you go from the most powerful engine on the grid, to the least powerful?

I agree, I dont see HAAS making the switch. They simply have a too good deal with Ferrari as of now to justify the switch. As for Sauber... I still think they made a mistake, but I cannot really fault them for remaining with Ferrari. It was certainly a better choice than Renault would be in their position. And I agree about Williams, it'd be one thing if they could produce a competitive chassis, but, as evidenced this year, thats not really the case. They rely far too much on the Mercedes power, and even then they havent really been very competitive this year. A Honda unit would definitely place them at the back of the grid.

I agree about Sauber. They choose the safe option, which is understandable, but in many ways also shows a profound lack of ambition. It should be every teams ambition to win races and championships, but Sauber seems to be happy just to participate, which is a shame.
Good point about Williams struggling the way they do, even with the most powerful engine. It's amazing how they've regressed this season.

@MBMWE36 wow I really couldn't disagree more. Sauber picking Honda engines would have been the safe, cheap, "happy to just participate" option which would have cemented the team at the back of the grid for another x number of years.

To instead pick the much more expensive Ferrari engine shows ambition and a real desire to get back to a competitive performance level.