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Renault: "2021 plans won't entice new engine makers"

Published on 21 Nov 2017 15:28
12
By: Rob Veenstra

Cyril Abiteboul doubts Liberty's proposed engine formula for 2021 will entice independent manufacturers onto the grid. One stated aim of the new rules is to allow the likes of Aston Martin, Cosworth, Ilmor or others to be able to enter formula one.

But Renault boss Abiteboul doubts the plan will work. "If the FIA and Liberty do not propose an engine that dictates standard technology or extreme restrictions in most areas, then private manufacturers cannot come," he told Auto Motor und Sport.

"And such a business plan would only work if the manufacturers were subsidised by a sponsor or a car company," the Frenchman added. "But such an engine would be unattractive for car companies. So I ask the FIA and Liberty who they want to favour with this engine format? If it's new car manufacturers, let's ask them what they want," Abiteboul said. (GMM)

RogerF1

Posts: 501

It's been mentioned here before about parallels with how Powertrain design has been so much broader in LMP1 and WEC and had yet created a spectacularly competitive series ultimately encompassing diesel and several hybrid designs. I hadn't followed close enough whether rule changes has seen all bu... [Read more]

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Nov 21 2017 - 23:14

F1 News Renault

Replies (12)

f1ski

Posts: 726
From auto week. The BBC reports that Ilmor and Cosworth, two independent engine manufacturers familiar with F1 in the pre-power unit era, are interested in the 2021 rules. Red Bull sponsor Aston Martin is also eyeing the post-2020 engine rules, while German media outlet Auto Bild reports that Porsche could enter the sport as well.

"The new proposal makes it possible for an independent or existing car company," Cosworth chief Bruce Wood said.
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- Nov 21 2017 - 15:45
f1ski

Posts: 726
Elmore cosworth and aston have expressed interest after seeing the specs. Perhaps renault is so against it because the french government won't open any more of the taxpayers money subsidizing an F1 campaign
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- Nov 21 2017 - 15:51
- Hombibi
  
  Posts: 137
  Of course they expressed interest. That does not cost much. Abiteboul makes a point I'd think. I don't think Liberty Media or the FIA will be succesful here. Too many vested interests.
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  Nov 21 2017 - 16:31
Hombibi

Posts: 137
He might have a point, this might go nowhere.

I think F1 needs less rules and more variation/innovation possibilities: Why not let teams build whatever they want. It is F1 after all. Put in a few restrictions to allow for competition on the road (no drs, no wings, same size car) and for safety (monocoque). Than bring cars closer together on the track with a weight handicap system that in turn generates constructor points.

Saves a lot of discussions and could even allow different kind of engines in the same competition.

I don't see why it all has to be the same, it does not make it cheaper, faster, or more spectacular. Quite the other way round.
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- Nov 21 2017 - 16:40
- calle.itw
  
  Posts: 8,527
  More variation would be cool, but the problem is that more variation also lead to a higher risk that someone finds a superdominant thing and hinder the rest from copying them. Its happened before.
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  Nov 21 2017 - 18:47
- Hombibi
  
  Posts: 137
  No dispute with you there Calle.Itw, but isn’t that the case already. Mercedes clearly has something the rest can’t match. And there was the famous diffuser not so long ago. So this isn’t anything new to f1. But with opening the rules everyone can try something different. I imagine dominance lasts much shorter, and cars may start to differ and excel on different kind of circuits, leading to a much more varied competition.
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  Nov 21 2017 - 20:32
- calle.itw
  
  Posts: 8,527
  Unless the FIA were to allow suppliers to replicate more successful mods then no, I think it could lead to far greater dominance than what we see today. Furthermore, the pressure such regulation puts on suppliers to push new parts forward to gain power could lead to worse reliability, meaning we'd need the FIA to allow more allocations... Well, teams need that anyway, but.
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  Nov 22 2017 - 06:37
calle.itw

Posts: 8,527
Well, Im following him and sort of agreeing with him that a step back shouldnt really attract more supplier. What goes against his statement, and my preliminary beliefs, is that there has been companies that has done more than just show interest in the new regulations. In this case, competitiveness and branding opportunity, along with a chance to affect the new regulations, will hopefully bridge the gap to the likes of VW, Cosworth, and maybe even Aston Martin, if they somehow can get cash for and build a fitting facility before 2021. Also heard that either Nissan or Toyota was considering it, and I'd find that sweet.
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- Nov 21 2017 - 18:45
RogerF1

Posts: 501
It's been mentioned here before about parallels with how Powertrain design has been so much broader in LMP1 and WEC and had yet created a spectacularly competitive series ultimately encompassing diesel and several hybrid designs. I hadn't followed close enough whether rule changes has seen all but Toyota move on but believe the OEM's have shifted focus to be able to realign branding with the political shift to EV's
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- Nov 21 2017 - 23:14
- f1ski
  
  Posts: 726
  yes but to keep things in check weight was added or subtracted to keep it all more closely competitive. To have good racing you need to allow strategy that overcomes a weakness (fueling and HP) or very strict spec racing. Refueling needs to return and lifting of fuel flow regulations. Teams will then be able to race rather than manage. F1 used to be a race. now its like a middle distance track event get a lead then respond to challenges.The problem with current spec engines was that teams couldn't develop their concept because of the token system. Wonder how many Deutsch tokens ended up in Bernies pockets.
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  Nov 23 2017 - 14:42
samuelw

Posts: 21
let them do what they did with the v10 to v8 era.
co exist the engine formula.
hybrid for renault etc. cossy can come in at same level with say 1.6 twin turbo and kers? or something? open it up like early 90's again..
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- Nov 22 2017 - 15:08
- RogerF1
  
  Posts: 501
  I'm definitely all for that. Engine builders will find their way and innovation will proliferate pushing the boundaries of technology as it should be.
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  Nov 22 2017 - 20:25