McLaren preparing 'B' car for Spanish Grand Prix

What are You talking about Calle? Catfood?!

Yes, for Boullier's McLaren Boss Brain parasite.

This is probably more accurate than it has any right to be :-D

Hahaha, good one!

Rofl, that is so got to be true...

And dont forget the " just pop some gp2 stickers on the car" He will feel like nothings changed and its hondas fault.

They did. And they havent suffered from making the switch. But it hasnt been as good as they clearly either said or believed. There is little doubt that they have a decent chassis, but it looks very specialized and draggy, far from even the less competitive Red Bull chassis. I also expect Renault to overtake them in the long run, the power of being a works team cant be overstated.

I think all three points are tremendously biased by a repeatedly acknowledged dislike for all things McLaren.

1) It probably wasn't true, but definitely wasn't a known factor. At least the claimed to be looking at data on the GPS around corners. We can only rely on our observations and of course. But it's ok to have an opinion on this.
2) In hindsight it's very easy to suggest that, but the expectation was that Honda would not be a catastrophic failure as a manufacturer and therefore would allow them to protect whatever innovative stuff they produced. It was an attempt to get competitive advantage.
3) This is the most ridiculous claim out of all of them. McLaren sabotaged the success of a PU that they didn't build. Works teams always have specific requirements to try to better incorporate the PU into the chassis. That's supposed to be an advantage as a works team. It's preposterous to suggest that in 3 years of working on the PU, McLaren could be considered "one of the major proponents" of their engine problems.

The only fact is that if Honda had managed to produce a half-decent engine in the almost 4 years they had to work on it, we would still be talking about McLaren-Honda. It's almost as if you (and many others) were infected by the same McLaren Boss Parasite whenever discussing this subject.

Not really though. You can be critical of something you like, hell, thats a healthy stance to take. Mind I am a bit pissed and tired of them. I see your points, HOWEVER, and here are my shrimps:
1) We saw this pretty immediately this year. They have the same engine as Red Bull, and are so far behind them, which clearly indicate that they do in fact not have the best chassis around. We also see that its a far too draggy car, just like last year. Red Bull had the Renault engine, but could build up some major speed, and thats because their design has a something called versatility.
2) It was easy to see that back then, and its easier to see it now. Hell, even McLaren saw that, and late 2016 tried to get Sauber on board, but it was too late for Sauber to switch supplier by then, so the deal broke through.
3) Read my statement more carefully. It wasnt sabotage as much as it was requirements that werent really beneficial in the long run. McLaren is first and foremost a chassis builder. What are they most interested in, if not getting good balance and aero, and a low weight? They asked for the size zero concept, and didnt expect any compromises to happen with a very compromised design. Likewise, an engine designer shouldnt go too much into how the chassis should look, because that could lead to an aero-inefficient design. At the end of it all, Honda did fuck up, for sure, but they werent alone in it. And thats not a preposterous statement, considering how deeply involved McLaren were in the development of the engine. I'll site this: McLaren asked Honda to make the engine even smaller for the 2017 season... McLaren did that.

@calle Sorry if my initial tone was a bit abrasive. It had less to do with what you said, and more with other factors. Although I like being able to argue about F1 with someone. I stand by what I said, just with a kinder tone :).

Reading your response I mostly agree. It's more that as a McLaren fan (with all the corresponding biases) I've been as fed up with McLaren's slow progress, but also with the popular trend of almost completely excusing Honda from their failure to build a proper PU. You are right that McLaren didn't make it easy for them, but I still think that specific requirements given with several months of anticipation, and working over 3 years to improve and refine should have yielded at least a PU that was somewhat reliable. I'm not even talking about performance, but finishing races. Honda never got there. The size zero concept? That's not new, I can think of at least two teams in the last 5 years that applied that concept (whatever the hell it means!).

Anyway, thanks for the civilized debate.

Likewise, I really enjoy our discussions, whether we agree or not. :)

As a Honda fan, I agree that many can be a bit too apologetic to Honda, and this trend has gone a bit too far when all Honda need is patience. But thats the way it tends to be if one party overpromise while always blaming the other.

I agree that a degree of influence and communications is vital to an operation, but excess of anything will be a poisonous dose. As you say, size zero aint new, but to push for it so hard in the hybrid era? It works for a regular engine, but was too soon in this gen at the time. And if Renault struggled to make a big engine competitive, imagine making a small engine competitive.

You too, and I hope I dont come off as rude. Really enjoy debating with the folks here, and I bet my Honda fanboyism shows regularly. :)